Tiffany valiante new jersey

Dear Valiante Family, We are so very sorry to hear of the loss of your beloved daughter,sister, aunt, and cousin Tiffany. Our thoughts and prayers are with you at this incredibly difficult time. Very sincerely, John, Joanne, Taryn, Jenna, Brooke, Taylor Townsend and Families

New Jersey is moving ahead with legislation to legalize adult-use marijuana. These companies are well-positioned to take advantage....CCF The New Jersey Legislature advanced a prop...It took less than a day, after Tiffany Valiante got hit by a New Jersey Transit train, for investigators to decide she committed suicide. Her family never believed it two years ago when it happened, and not just because investigators' conclusion was reached so quickly.. Instead, the family always suspected Valiante, an outgoing, college-bound 18-year-old volleyball star, fell victim to foul ...New Jersey is a state located in the northeastern region of the United States. It is known for its diverse geography, from its beautiful beaches to its rolling hills and dense fore...The following morning, Valiante was found on a train track. She was only partially clothed, and was barefoot. According to the New Jersey Transit Police, who investigated her death, as well as the medical examiner’s office, she was hit by a train. The death was ruled a suicide, but Tiffany’s parents refuse to believe she took her own life.The "other" New Jersey you never hear about. Don't be an asshole. ... Netflix's 'Unsolved Mysteries' episode deals with suspicious death of South Jersey teen Tiffany Valiante ... why didn't they question the girl whose money Tiffany stole?she must have been a prime suspect right?

On July 12, 2015, Tiffany and her family were celebrating her cousin’s high school graduation who lived across the street on Manheim Avenue in Mays Landing, New Jersey. Around 9 pm one of Tiffany’s friends called her parents, Steve and Diane Valiante. The friend had accused Tiffany of using her debit card without asking to buy food and ... A former Atlantic County forensic pathologist says investigators already believed Tiffany Valiante, 18, committed suicide, skewing the results before they began investigating her 2015 death on the ... Considered by many as a lesser-known borough of New York City, Jersey City often gets overshadowed by the glitz and glamor of Manhattan and NYC. But when you Home / Cool Hotels / T...The state with the most residents by this name is New Jersey, followed by Pennsylvania and Arizona. Public records for Stephen Valiante range in age from 42 years old to 62 years old. ... Unsolved: Who Killed Tiffany Valiante? - 5 Unsolved Cases From New Jersey | Mr. Davis. Duration: 21m 54s. Published: 30 Mar, 2021. Channel: Mr. Davis. Submit ...The medical examiner system in New Jersey is a mixture of state- and county-run offices, and data shows how quickly and thoroughly deaths are investigated varies wildly depending on where the ...On July 12, 2015, Tiffany and her family were celebrating her cousin's high school graduation who lived across the street on Manheim Avenue in Mays Landing, New Jersey. Around 9 pm one of Tiffany's friends called her parents, Steve and Diane Valiante. The friend had accused Tiffany of using her debit card without asking to buy food and ...Are you craving a delicious, mouth-watering sub sandwich? Look no further than Jersey Mike’s. With their wide selection of fresh ingredients and flavorful combinations, Jersey Mike...Mar 30, 2022 · Tiffany Valiante, then 18, died after midnight on July 12, 2015, after being struck by a NJ Transit train along a section of track in Galloway. The death was quickly ruled as a suicide, which the ...

A trailer released by Netflix on Tuesday for the upcoming season of "Unsolved Mysteries" teases nine new cases, including one about a South Jersey teenager who died in 2015. Tiffany Valiante was ...Tiffany Valiante was 18-years-old and had just graduated from Oakcrest High School in Mays Landing, New Jersey. Standing 6 feet 2 inches tall, she was a star athlete who had accepted a volleyball scholarship to Mercy College in New York. Tiffany had no history of mental illness, and was by all accounts excited to head to college at the end of ...Buongiorno, non ci conosciamo, ho appena visto la storia di TIFF guardando l'episodio su NETFLIX. Vivo in Italia e ho due figli, ho immaginato il dolore che avete provato quel giorno e che provate ancora. Siate forti, l'amore vince sempre anche quando tutto è incomprensibile. Qualsiasi cosa sia accaduta a TIFF sarete sempre i suoi splendidi genitori. Michela⚖️ Attorney Paul D'Amato describes in detail what happened on July 12, 2015, the day that Tiffany Valiante was struck and killed by a NJ Transit train near her home…Nov 7, 2023 · November 7, 2023. In the late evening and early morning hours between July 12th and July 13th, 2015, 18-year-old Tiffany Valiante’s body was recovered by police after it was struck by a train in Mays Landing, New Jersey. Her family was told that the promising young volleyball player had jumped out in front of the train, taking her own life.

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INVESTIGATIVE REPORT Submited By H. Louise Houseman, Senior Medical Investigator (Ret) In The Death OF TIFFANY VALIANTE July 12,2015 Since September 21, 2016, 1 have had several opportunities to read reports and interviews by employees of the New Jersey Transit Police Department, the Adantic County Prosecutor's Office, and the Regional Medical ... Anyone with information about the case is urged to immediately contact law enforcement, including the state Office of Attorney General at 800-277-2427. He added, "The N.J. Medical Examiner ...Jason report Contributed by The Daily Beast. p. 1. Donald Jason, MD, JD Practice Limited to Forensic Medicine & Pathology 825 Ellington Drive Winston-Salem, NC 27104 (336) 414-8226 February 19, 2018 Paul R. D’Amato, Esq. D’Amato Law Firm 2900 Fire Road, Suite 200 Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey 08234 Re: Death of Tiffany Valiante Dear Mr. …New shoes that hurt, wow, good thinking. ... NEWARK — The family of a South Jersey girl whose death was initially ruled a suicide after she was struck by a train is asking NJ Transit to examine whether. ... This is everything Unsolved Mysteries leaves out about the Tiffany Valiante case Many details were missed from the Netflix doc. www ...Justice for Tiffany Valiante. Posted on July 13, 2020. Five years ago, 18-year-old Tiffany Valiante was struck and killed by a New Jersey Transit train. Investigators ruled the incident a suicide despite the insistence by Tiffany’s family that murder was the actual cause of death. The D’Amato Law Firm has been working with the Valiante ...

New shoes that hurt, wow, good thinking. ... NEWARK — The family of a South Jersey girl whose death was initially ruled a suicide after she was struck by a train is asking NJ Transit to examine whether. ... This is everything Unsolved Mysteries leaves out about the Tiffany Valiante case Many details were missed from the Netflix doc. www ...Steven and Dianne Valiante announced Tuesday that they are offering $40,000 for any tips that lead to an arrest of the person or people responsible for Tiffany's death. The death of Tiffany Valiante , the 18-year-old Mays Landing girl who was hit by an NJ Transit train on July 12, 2015, is the focus of the first episode of Netflix's third ...Tiffany Valiante was only 18-years-old when she became a missing person on a summer night in 2015. Tiffany snuck out of her home that evening and was spotte...In this episode of 'Unsolved Mysteries,' the family of Tiffany Valiante searches for answers about her death. The Unsolved Mysteries bonus material for the case of Tiffany Valiante, including photos, police reports and more.Tiffany lived in Mays Landing New Jersey with her parents. Tiffany and her parents were confronted by a friend on the 12th of July 2015. The friend was unhappy with Tiffany's use of debit cards to buy food and clothes. After the fight with her parents, she left her house at 21:30 and did not inform anyone.Tiffany Valiante. Valiante Family. On the 12th of July 2015, 18-year-old Tiffany Valiante was struck by a train in her hometown of Mays Landing, New Jersey. However, her case isn’t everything that it seems to be. The high schooler had just recently graduated from Oakcrest High School and was planning to go to college in the fall.Tiffany Valiante, 18, of Mays Landing, NJ passed away tragically on July 12th, 2015. Tiffany was a 2015 High School Graduate. Tiffany had so much passion and love for her family and had a natural motherly instinct for her niece and nephews. ... Mays Landing, Atlantic County, New Jersey, USA Burial. Cremated Add to Map. Memorial ID 244804144 ...Tiffany Fearless' destruction in the wake of hitting a plan is the subject of Episode 1, "Secret in Mile Marker 45. " Tiffany Fearless, then, at that point, 18,… Since the fresh out of the plastic new time of Strange Problems appeared on Netflix, Tiffany Valiante crime location photos have showed up in Google look.At A Glance. Name + age: Tiffany Ida Mae Valiante, 18 Date: Sunday, July 12, 2015 Location: Mays Landing, New Jersey What happened: On the night of Sunday, July 12, 2015, 18-year-old Tiffany Ida Mae Valiante is struck by New Jersey Transit train No. 4693 just after 11 pm. Tiffany’s case is featured in episode one, season three of …The unsolved mystery surrounding the death of Tiffany Valiante has raised questions regarding the investigation that the popular Netflix show, "Unsolved Mysteries," covered in its third volume. ... It was also revealed that the investigation was carried out by the New Jersey Transit Police, who were not typically responsible for homicide or ...Tiffany Valiante // 298. Going West: True Crime. True Crime. In July of 2015, an 18-year-old woman ran from her parents’ New Jersey home during an argument, and never returned. Just hours after being captured on a security camera heading in the direction of the woods, her remains were recovered on a nearby train track.Tiffany Valiante Reddit Unsolved Mysteries Know Details on Reddit. By. Storyatures - October 21, 2022. 0. 97. Share on Facebook. Tweet on Twitter ...

Family of Tiffany Valiante doubles reward for tips. MAYS LANDING — The parents of a Hamilton Township teen who died in 2015 have increased the reward to $40,000 from $20,000 for new information ...

Acela trains will now hit speeds of 150 mph on the Northeast Corridor in New Jersey. If you're feeling the need for more speed on Amtrak's popular Northeast Corridor route, there's...It’s been more than seven years, but the sudden 2015 demise of Hamilton Township, New Jersey, teenager Tiffany Ida Mae Valiante has unfortunately continued to …At A Glance. Name + age: Tiffany Ida Mae Valiante, 18 Date: Sunday, July 12, 2015 Location: Mays Landing, New Jersey What happened: On the night of Sunday, July 12, 2015, 18-year-old Tiffany Ida Mae Valiante is struck by New Jersey Transit train No. 4693 just after 11 pm. Tiffany's case is featured in episode one, season three of Netflix's Unsolved Mysteries, because her death was ruled a ...INVESTIGATIVE REPORT Submited By H. Louise Houseman, Senior Medical Investigator (Ret) In The Death OF TIFFANY VALIANTE July 12,2015 Since September 21, 2016, 1 have had several opportunities to read reports and interviews by employees of the New Jersey Transit Police Department, the Adantic County Prosecutor's Office, and the Regional Medical ...Donated To: Tiffany Valiante Scholarship Fund . Donated By: The Gatto Family . Message: On behalf of the Gatto Family, we extend this donation in honor of Tiffany. May her legacy and memory live on for many years to come. ... Mays Landing, NJ 08330. Fax: 609-625-9141 . Email: [email protected] Valiante was born on 3 March 1997 in Atlantic County, New Jersey, USA. She died on 12 July 2015 in Galloway Township, New Jersey, USA. Menu. Movies. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight.Posted by u/Navy-Vet1980 - 5 votes and 2 commentsJul 12, 2017 · Egg Harbor Township, N.J. (July 12, 2017) — Three years ago today 19-year-old Tiffany Valiante, the college-bound Mays Landing star volleyball player, was struck by a commuter train about five miles from her home. But was she already dead when the New Jersey transit train hit her? What happened to Tiffany Valiante? On 12th July 2015 18-year-old Tiffany and her parents attended a graduation party in their hometown of Mays Landing, New Jersey. At around 9pm one of Tiffany's friend spoke to her parents and claimed Tiffany was using her debit card. The conversation was said to have lasted less than 10 minutes and Tiffany ...

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According to the New Jersey Patch, Tiffany's parents Stephen and Dianne Valiante have recently doubled the award for information about her death to $40,000. Just last week, the family's ...6 p.m., July 12 th, Mays Landing Candlelight Remembrance. Mays Landing, New Jersey (July 11, 2023) – Eight years ago, near midnight on a steamy summer night, 18-year- old Tiffany Valiante, barefoot and partially clothed, was mysteriously struck and killed by an Atlantic City-bound New Jersey Transit train less than five miles from her house.Oct 20, 2022 · As seen in the episode titled "Mystery at Mile Marker 45," in 2015, 18-year-old Tiffany was struck by a train only four miles from her family home in New Jersey. While the New Jersey Transit Police Department said she committed suicide, throwing herself in front of the train and being killed by the impact, her family argues this can’t be true. What happened to Tiffany Valiante? On 12th July 2015 18-year-old Tiffany and her parents attended a graduation party in their hometown of Mays Landing, New Jersey. At around 9pm one of Tiffany's friend spoke to her parents and claimed Tiffany was using her debit card. The conversation was said to have lasted less than 10 minutes and Tiffany ...Damon Jones, 34, Bridgeton. The Atlantic County Prosecutor said on Sept. 16, 2017, at around 1:19 am, Damon Jones, 34, of Bridgeton and Talisa Colon, 23, of Vineland were fatally shot as they sat in a vehicle in the parking lot of the MVP Sports Bar, located at 408 Wheat Road, Buena. Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office.New Jersey is a state located in the northeastern region of the United States. It is known for its diverse geography, from its beautiful beaches to its rolling hills and dense fore...Tiffany Valiante is 26 yrs old and lives on Mannheim Ave in Mays Landing, NJ. Get public records, addresses, phones, email, criminal records & more. 100% FREE! Find Tiffany Valiante. Fast and Free! ... Tiffany Valiante in Mays Landing, NJ (New Jersey) Age 26 View Full Background Report. Profile.Client-centric approach and mindset. The hiring range for this position ranges from $131,495 - 185,640. The rate of pay offered will be dependent upon candidates' relevant skills and experience. 11 Tiffany & jobs available in New Jersey on Indeed.com. Apply to Staff Accountant, Tax Director, Client Advisor and more!The medical examiner system in New Jersey is a mixture of state- and county-run offices, and data shows how quickly and thoroughly deaths are investigated varies wildly depending on where the ...Tiffany's mother said it was only $80ish because she found the receipt for Tiffany's new shoes (same ones in the woods) that she had used the stolen credit card. I'm going to go with the friend's claim of $300+, just because Tiffany's mom didn't find receipts for any other items doesn't mean Tiffany didn't use the card on other ...October 17, 2022. Robert Sr. While it’s undeniable that Tiffany Valiante was a bright, college-bound athlete when she suddenly passed away on July 12, 2015, it’s sadly still unclear whether it resulted from suicide or murder. After all, as examined in Netflix’s ‘Unsolved Mysteries: Mystery at Mile Marker 45,’ while her family believes ... ….

Oct 19, 2022. #19. PotterHead said: I watched the first episode of the new season of Unsolved Mysteries - the death of Tiffany Valiante and wonder what other viewers thought. I hadn't heard of this case. Overall, I thought Unsolved Mysteries did a very poor job in presenting the case. It was 80% complete a total speculation with a handful of ...The death of Tiffany Valiante, the 18-year-old Mays Landing girl who was hit by an NJ Transit train on July 12, 2015, is the focus of the first episode of Netflix's third season of Unsolved Mysteries, which starts …In lieu of flowers the family requests that donations be made to the Tiffany Valiante Scholarship Fund, PO Box 153, Cologne, NJ 08213. Mays Landing, New Jersey March 3, 1997 - July 12, 2015 03/03/1997 07/12/2015 On July 12th 2018, at the Valiante Family home in Mays Landing, a vigil is held for Tiffany Valiante. Today marks three years since her death, when she was hit by a train after disappearing after ... The death of Tiffany Valiante, the 18-year-old Mays Landing girl who was hit by a NJ Transit train on July 12, 2015, is the focus of the first episode of Netflix's third season of Unsolved Mysteries. Unsolved Mysteries: Volume 3 premieres October 18 on Netflix. The episode concerning Valiante titled is "Mystery at Mile Marker 45".Tiffany Valiante Reddit Unsolved Mysteries Know Details on Reddit. By. Storyatures - October 21, 2022. 0. 97. Share on Facebook. Tweet on Twitter ...The Story Behind the Unsolved Mysteries 'Mystery at Mile Marker 45′ New Jersey Death. Dino Flammia. Dino Flammia Published: November 23, 2022. Website of Paul D'Amato. Share on Facebook; Share on Twitter; More than seven years later, there's a new surge of hope for the parents of an 18-year-old who feel their daughter's death should never ...<p>In 2015, Tiffany Valiante died in what many consider to be a very mysterious way. Just after 11:00 PM, Tiffany was struck by a train and killed in Southern New Jersey. The authorities ruled it a suicide, but Tiffany's family does not believe that to be true.</p><p>Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the mysterious death of Tiffany Valiante. Tiffany had graduated from high school and was set ...Tiffany Valiante, 18, was preparing for her first semester at Mercy College in New York when she was struck by a train on the Atlantic City Rail Line on July 12, 2015. The train was bound for the ...This subreddit is about unsolved mysteries. Whenever possible, actual redditors have participated in investigating the events. What you are about to read is not a news broadcast. Male DNA detected in the Tiffany Valiante case. Also the fact that they picked up her jawbone with teeth and skull bone with hair like WTF. Tiffany valiante new jersey, Valiante’s case was featured in a 2017 NJ Advance Media investigation that revealed decades of dysfunction and neglect had turned New Jersey’s medical examiner system into one of the worst in ..., State Medical Examiner Andrew Falzon agreed to reopen the case last year and review new evidence pertaining to the death of Valiante, of Hamilton Township, who was killed by an NJ Transit train in ..., This group, Tiffany Valiante: SEARCH for the TRUTH, is founded on the belief that there was FOUL PLAY, and foul play only and no suicidal intentions! Any and all contributions following that premise..., FAMILY/SUPPORTERS PETITION N.J. ATTORNEY GENERAL TO REOPEN TIFFANY VALIANTE CASE WWW.CHANGE.ORG PLATFORM HOSTS GRASSROOTS PETITION. Tiffany Valiante was 18 when on July 12, 2015, she was struck by a New Jersey Transit, Atlantic City Rail Line train bound for Atlantic City from Philadelphia., Donated To: Tiffany Valiante Scholarship Fund . Donated By: The Gatto Family . Message: On behalf of the Gatto Family, we extend this donation in honor of Tiffany. May her legacy and memory live on for many years to come. ... Mays Landing, NJ 08330. Fax: 609-625-9141 . Email: [email protected]., In this episode of 'Unsolved Mysteries,' the family of Tiffany Valiante searches for answers about her death. The Unsolved Mysteries bonus material for the case of Tiffany Valiante, including photos, police reports and more., This group, Tiffany Valiante: SEARCH for the TRUTH, is founded on the belief that there was FOUL PLAY, and foul play only and no suicidal intentions! Any and all contributions following that premise..., Tiffany and Co is a legendary American luxury jewelry and specialty retailer that has been in business for over 183 years. The brand has become synonymous with timeless elegance, s..., New Jersey is moving ahead with legislation to legalize adult-use marijuana. These companies are well-positioned to take advantage....CCF The New Jersey Legislature advanced a prop..., The family of a New Jersey teenager struck and killed by a New Jersey Transit train last summer is challenging the ruling that her death was a suicide. ... Tiffany Valiante's family filed a ..., Home; News; Local News; Business; Health; Finance; Celeb Lifestyle; Archives. January 2024; December 2023; November 2023; October 2023, Higher reward in Tiffany Valiante case. New posters for Tiffany note the Netflix program, and a reward of $40,000, up from $20,000, for information that helps "solve the 2015 suspicious death.", Numerous issues exist with the official investigators' assumption that Tiffany Valiante death in Unsolved Mysteries was a suicide. The popular young athlete was struck by a train on the evening of July 12, 2015, about four miles from her home in Galloway Township, New Jersey, according to the Unsolved Mysteries volume 3 premiere episode, "Mystery at Mile Marker 45.", There is a new active Facebook discussion group, "Justice for Tiffany Valiante" (see link below) discussing the suspicious death case of Tiffany Valiante (Mays Landing NJ, 2015) featured on the newest season of Unsolved Mysteries "Mystery at Mile Marker 45" (Vol 3, Ep 1) on Netflix., This article provides information on the Tiffany Valiante case and tells the readers about the theories on Tiffany Valiante Reddit and other information facts. Who doesn't like good theories on mysterious incidents, right? ... 3 - What is the residence address of Tiffany Valiante? A: Tiffany Valiante New Jersey. However, the whole residence ..., March 3, 1997 is Tiffany's birth date. Tiffany's age is 26. 3160 Mannheim Aven, Hamilton Township, NJ 08330-3036 is the residential address for Tiffany. We assume that Dianne F Valiante and James S Valiante were among ten dwellers or residents at this place. Tiffany can be reached by phone at (609) 965-3885 (Verizon New Jersey, Claire Lowe. ATLANTIC CITY — A Superior Court judge has denied the New Jersey attorney general's motion to dismiss a lawsuit brought against the office by the family of Tiffany Valiante over ..., Tiffany Valiante, 18, died after being struck by an NJ Transit train, and investigators quickly determined she had committed suicide. But Valiante's family alleges the evidence doesn't add up, and ..., In March, New Jersey Medical Examiner Andrew Falzon wrote to D'Amato that after he had reviewed the case, the manner and cause of death should not be changed. ... Dianne Valiante, Tiffany's mom ..., The top medical examiner in New Jersey has decided to uphold his office's ruling of suicide in a 2015 death despite protests from the family. Eighteen-year-old Tiffany Valiante, of Mays Landing ..., This group, Tiffany Valiante: SEARCH for the TRUTH, is founded on the belief that there was FOUL PLAY, and foul play only and no suicidal intentions! Any and all contributions following that premise..., The official story is this: Tiffany Valiante, 18, walked four miles to the NJ Transit train tracks, took off her jean shorts and sneakers and walked in front of a moving train., Netflix announces case will be featured in new 'Unsolved Mysteries' season starting Oct. 18th EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J., Oct. 11, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- More than seven years after her highly ..., The primary episode of the latest series details the tragic death of Tiffany Valiante, an 18-year-old athlete who died in 2015 after attending her graduation party in her hometown of Mays Landing, New Jersey., October 05, 2022 Netflix series 'Unsolved Mysteries' to feature case of South Jersey teen's suspicious death Tiffany Valiante, of Mays Landing, was 18 years old when she was struck by a commuter ..., On July 12, 2015, Tiffany attended a graduation party for her cousin who lived across the street from her in Mays Landing, New Jersey. What happened to Tiffany Valiante? A few hours after she left the party, Tiffany was struck and killed by a NJ Transit train and was quickly ruled a suicide by NJ Transit Police., Eighteen year old Tiffany Valiante died tragically on July 12, 2015. She was either struck by or run over by a train approximately four miles from her families' home in Mays Landing, New Jersey. The last two hours of her life are a mystery. The investigation quickly ruled the manner of death a suicide, but were the authorities too quick to judge?, 3 – What is the residence address of Tiffany Valiante? A: Tiffany Valiante New Jersey. However, the whole residence address is not mentioned anywhere nor displayed on the show. 4 – Was it a murder or a suicide? A: It’s still a mystery, as no one knows what happened to Tiffany Valiante that night. 5 – Was Tiffany alone during the incident?, Dianne F Valiante lives in Mays Landing, NJ. They have also lived in Linneus, ME and Cologne, NJ. Dianne is related to Tiffany Valiante and Stephen F Valiante as well as 3 additional people. Phone numbers for Dianne include: (609) 965-3885. View Dianne's cell phone and current address., The New Jersey Medical Examiner's Office reviewed Tiffany's case in 2018 and the suicide ruling was upheld, according to the Netflix episode. Higher reward in Tiffany Valiante case. New posters for Tiffany note the Netflix program, and a reward of $40,000, up from $20,000, for information that helps "solve the 2015 suspicious death.", a few weeks ago. This is OUR means, and by OUR I mean everyone and anyone that identifies with the plight of the Valiante family and their quest of JUSTICE for TIFFANY!! Since the airing of the show 1000's of people were moved, shaken, angered, appalled and disgusted with how the State of New Jersey has embarrassingly handled this incident., Higher reward in Tiffany Valiante case. New posters for Tiffany note the Netflix program, and a reward of $40,000, up from $20,000, for information that helps "solve the 2015 suspicious death.", An open community to discuss the suspicious case of Tiffany Valiante and Unsolved Mysteries V3: 'Mystery at Mile Marker 45' Trigger Warning: Various sensitive and adult topics are discussed here. ... The word I meant was convienent for NJT and the State of New Jersey after NJT screwed up so bad! The interesting part is the "volunteer" that ...